• 2 Posts
Joined 6M ago
Cake day: Jun 09, 2023


The sliding scale is a really interesting idea that would strike a nice balance. Even something as simple (conceptually, probably quite the opposite infra and code wise) would be allowing an opt-in at the user level to see “unfiltered, unmoderated content from defederated instances”, similar to opting into nsfw content.

Totally fair point, but I also think you are highlighting something really important - Lemmy is absolutely not ready to “replace” reddit, from a pure scale and number of users perspective…not even close. This is not at all an admonishment or knock on anyone working their butts off (as devs, as instance owners, as admins, as mods - almost all as volunteers!), just a statement of fact. I will admit, as a user of that platform for ~15 years, at some point, I kind of stopped paying attention to just how many people were there. This technology community within Beehaw, for example, is currently ~20k strong and there are a few other communities across the lemmiverse of similar size - in contrast /r/technology has, after an exodus, ~14 million subscribers and is not even considered among the most popular subreddits. So yes, it may feel like a shit show, and honestly, I won’t say it isn’t, but that’s how new, emergent technology usually goes, generally, and we (collective we, not just beehaw, all of us looking for our new home) should be mindful of that, which I know is easier said than done.

Very good point, especially for casual users and pure discovery/exploration.

edit: to expand - for someone interested in rolling their own, individual instance, for example, you will need to do your own discovery across the lemmiverse to find instances and communities that your are interested in or which resonate with you, actively seeking them out to federate with your instance (which in *most *cases should just be as simple as searching and following.) One benefit of larger instances is the crowdsource effect of many people having already blazed many trails like this.

Federation, Defederation, and You - FAQ and Megathread
*Regarding Beehaw defederating from lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works, [this](https://beehaw.org/post/567170) post goes into detail on the why and the philosophy behind that decision. Additionally, there is an update specific to sh.itjust.works [here](https://beehaw.org/post/594843).* For now, let's talk about what federation is and what defederation means for members of Beehaw or the above two communities interacting with each other, as well as the broader fediverse. *Federation is not something new on the internet*. Most users use federated services every day (for instance, the url used to access instances uses a federated service known as DNS, and email is another system that functions through federation.) Just like those services, you elect to use a service provider that allows you to communicate with the rest of the world. That service provider is your window to work with others. When you federate, you mutually agree to share your content. This means that posting something to a site can be seen by another and all comments are shared. Even users from other sites can post to your site. Now when you defederate, this results in content to be no longer shared. It didn't reverse any previous sharing or posts, it just stops the information from flowing with the selected instance. This only impacts the site's that are called out. What this means to you is when a user within one instance (e.g. Beehaw) that's chosen to defederate with another (e.g. lemmy.world), they can no longer interact with content on another instance, and vice versa. Other instances can still see the content of both servers as though nothing has happened. - A user is not limited to how many instances they can join (technically at least - some instance have more stringent requirements for joining than others do) - A user can interact with Lemmy content without being a user of any Lemmy instance - e.g. Mastodon (UI for doing so is limited, but it is still possible.) Considering the above, it is important to understand just how much autonomy we, as users have. For example, as the larger instances are flooded with users and their respective admins and mods try to keep up, many, smaller instances not only thrive, but emerge, regularly (and even single user instances - I have one for just myself!) The act of defederation does not serve to lock individual users out of anything as there are multiple avenues to constantly maintain access to, if you want it, the entirety of the unfiltered fediverse. On that last point, another consideration at the individual level is - what do you want out of Lemmy? Do you want to find and connect with like-minded people, share information, and connect at a social and community level? Do you want to casually browse content and not really interact with anyone? These questions and the questions that they lead to are critical. There is no direct benefit to being on the biggest instance. In fact, as we all deal with this mass influx, figure out what that means for our own instances and interactions with others, I would argue that a smaller instance is actually much better suited for those who just want to casually browse everything. Lastly, and tangential, another concern I have seen related to this conversation is people feeling afraid of being locked out of the content and conversation from the "main" communities around big topics starting to form across the Lemmiverse (think memes, gaming, tech, politics, news, etc.) Over time, certain communities will certainly become a default for some people just given the community size (there will *always* be a biggest or most active - it's just a numbers game.) This, again though, all comes down to personal preference and what each individual is looking to get from their Lemmy experience. While there may, eventually, be a “main” sub for <topic xyz> (again, by the numbers), there will also always be quite a few other options for targeted discussions on <topic xyz>, within different communities, on different instances, each with their own culture and vibe. This can certainly feel overwhelming and daunting (and at the moment, honestly it is.) Reddit and other non-federated platforms provided the illusion of choice, but this is what actual choice looks and feels like. [edit: grammar and spelling]

I can see how it may appear that way, but we are hoping this is just a temporary state until mod and admin tools can catch up to the scale. Open signups and a flood of users in some of the big instances is not necessarily a problem by itself, but the moderation tools Lemmy has today are pretty rudimentary at the moment. This is certainly the case intra-instance, but is exacerbated once cross-instance moderation comes into play, especially when each instance has its own culture, rules, etc.

That’s exactly it. Open signups and the volume that comes with that just highlights the lack of comprehensive moderation tools at the moment, certainly within instances, but also cross-instance - lots of very active conversations happening on this front though!

Howdy! Would you mind reposting this over in the megathread? https://beehaw.org/post/576904

It’ll help keep things tidy given how hot of a topic this is at the moment + with everyone consolidating there, you may find a more active/engaging discussion on your post there as well!

Locking for now, will remove once you have a chance to repost.

Yup totally agreed.

I am also starting to pick up on the fact that (I think) a large amount of users never really went beyond the front page or /r/all. So, sure there are “main” subs for specific topics, but there is a very, very niche world of communities behind it all as well, and to your point, purposeful fractures of communities. I saw it a lot with the game-specific subs, where you might have a sub for news about the game and general discussion, one for memes, one for pvp or competitive, one for lfg or clan recruitment, etc. - it’s a good thing.

That’s also the nice thing about federated content and instances in that no single instance needs to (or should imo) try to be everything to everyone and it gives everyone involved so much more flexibility. I also think that last part is what some folks are struggling with as well - when there isn’t a clear winner or “main” sub for <topic xyz>, but rather, quite a few options for targeted discussions on <topic xyz>, within different communities each with their own culture and vibe, it can certainly feel overwhelming. Reddit provided the illusion of choice, but this is what actual choice looks and feels like.

[edited for grammar]

Howdy! Would you mind reposting this over in the megathread? https://beehaw.org/post/550898

It’ll help keep things tidy given how hot of a topic this is at the moment + with everyone consolidating there, you may find a more active/engaging discussion on your post there as well!

Locking for now, will remove once you have a chance to repost.

So, it actually does (for communities at least), it just isn’t evident/obvious at all yet

If you click on the ‘Subscribed’ or ‘All Posts’ text in the top middle after you login to an instance, you’ll see the screen that loads now says ‘Community…’ in light grey at the top. Click that, it’s a search box. I discovered this 100% by accident

afaik, that’s about it for the time being

I’ve been using it mostly so I can support the devs and submit bug/crash reports, but fall back to just the website for actual, casual browsing

There is a community for mlem over here as well: https://beehaw.org/c/[email protected]

I think it is a lot of the latter at this point, tbh. Non tech-savvy folks that don’t even think about the browser software at all, let alone know there are other options or seek them out.